Please set your LearnWPT Password now. Your username is the email address you joined with. Having trouble? Email us at [email protected]



A10s Flop Shove

  • mysteryplayer (NY, NY)

Table dynamics - lots of limp/calling large portions of stacks pre flop. Pre flop raise sizing was all over the board where sometimes a $10 raise got 0 callers and a $50 raise from UTG got 4 callers. These players are not positionally aware and just play their cards. And their cards do not represent premium hands – just whether they ‘like it’ or not. Example; a $50 pre flop raise got called by 35s and the $50 call was >50% of their stack (and the raiser’s hand was K10o). These players like to gamble pre and they do not play fit or fold post.

So… on this particular hand, there were 4 limpers hero in BB with As10s.

I thought about limping behind but I felt A10s was well ahead of all their ranges (even the UTG range since I saw him limp/call several times with a wide variety of hand ranges).

Question 1 - Should I have just limped with this type of hand and table/players?

On the flop, I checked due to the multi nature of the pot.

Question 2 - should I have bet out on the flop? And if a bet, shove since SPR is ~2 (bet would be a large portion of ES)? Or bet small due to low SPR?

Question 3 - as played, should hero have shoved or folded on the flop?

Thought process on flop was that a call represented ~50% of ES so it was either a shove or a fold (plus I was not getting direct pot odds to make the call). I didn’t think I had much fold equity but with 9 outs plus the A as a possible out, I gave myself 10 outs x 4 = 40% and the pot odds if called would be 36% so I believe shoving was correct but would like verification (and/or any correction to though process) please.

From a range perspective, I did not put UTG1 on a premium hand since he limped and then just called my pre flop raise, with multiple players still left to act behind him. On the flop, I put him on either Kx or lesser flush draw.

[If this next section is answered in a separate post I completely understand since it is related to the above hand analysis but asks for more in-depth analysis of strategy and exploitive play]

On another topic, I really need help with these types of games/players (they are regulars where I play and it is the only game in town so I have no choice). I need help based on the table/player dynamics as described above, as well as the fact that the game usually plays shallow (even at 100bbs stacks) so I am often all-in either pre or post flop. Or, even if the game becomes deeper, if there are multiple callers pre, the SPR is still so low that top pair (or even 2nd pair if SPR is 1 or less) shouldn’t be folded. Also, because the game is shallow, I fold a lot of hands pre flop due to 1. Hand equity does not equal size of bet necessary to thin the field, or 2. there is a raise and a 3-bet would be pot committing and, again, the hand not a premium hand worth playing for 100bb stacks, or 3. there is a raise and can’t call based on calling criteria. Consequently, I find myself tightening up my pre flop ranges and therefore do not play a whole lot of hands. But when I do play, it is not unusual to play for stacks or large pots. The end result is that I have big wins, but I also have big losses (3 buy-in stop loss). I understand this game has a high variance aspect but I also understand this game should be very profitable - but it’s not for me. The big wins are off set by the big losses. I am extremely frustrated and losing confidence. Are there specific exploitative adjustments I can or should be making?

As always, much appreciation for all that you do and provide!!

Hand Input Tool

NL Cash (1/2)

Answers are only available to members.